tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post1397279815054429491..comments2023-09-20T12:50:40.208+01:00Comments on Pete Brown: "Lager drinkers are brainwashed morons."Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03011702209832734676noreply@blogger.comBlogger27125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-38371250011138185512011-02-17T08:37:27.016+00:002011-02-17T08:37:27.016+00:00The big irony of the "Lagerboy" campaign...The big irony of the "Lagerboy" campaign is that Wychwood's Hobgoblin doesn't have a great deal of taste itself. Its flavour profile is notoriously lacking in any complexity. Check out the reviews, eg. http://bit.ly/dNgeugTrenchfoothttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11671710649852662291noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-90278823312475131392011-02-12T17:13:34.443+00:002011-02-12T17:13:34.443+00:00Just spotted that the original FT article recommen...Just spotted that the original FT article recommends the (reputedly) awful Bree Louise in London NW1 as one of "five great alehouses".<br /><br /><i>"The interior has the charm of an Eastern Bloc consulate, but the beers make this one of London’s best alehouses."</i>Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-36299530350754747252011-02-09T08:52:26.131+00:002011-02-09T08:52:26.131+00:00Pete - excellent summing-up of the pros & cons...Pete - excellent summing-up of the pros & cons of lagerboyism (Wychwood: leaves a bit of a bad taste but probably OK on balance; CAMRA: no).<br /><br />But...<br /><br /><i>But we all know that people holding her repellent views still hold many senior positions.</i><br /><br />Do we?Philhttp://ohgoodale.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-58770696997756486542011-02-08T23:09:28.565+00:002011-02-08T23:09:28.565+00:00Stono/Phil - fair points raised about Wychwood. I...Stono/Phil - fair points raised about Wychwood. It's one I've been thinking about a lot, and then I remembered I'd addressed them in some detail after the GBBF when these T-shorts were unveiled - my third ever post on this blog, which was, as far as I'm aware, the first UK beer blog, here: http://tinyurl.com/64tvy5s<br /><br />There are quite a few opinions I've have changed since then (such as my opinion about proof reading entries before posting them) but I was about to write something now, four and a half years later, and found I'd written it all then.<br /><br />Personally I don't like the Wychwood campaign. But having spoken to the brewery, whereas I used to believe it only appealed to the hairiest real ale, D&D playing nerds, they tell me that it's successful in recruiting new drinkers to real ale, that 'lagerboys' get the irony, take the challenge, and embrace it. I'm not entirely sure that it doesn't turn off as many novice drinkers at the same time, so I'm not convinced. But the point I made in '06 was that they are one beer brand - it's kind of up to them if they want to piss people off. <br /><br />But CAMRA claims to be a consumer organisation representing all beer drinkers (yes it does - go and look at their website). When they take Wychwood sponsorship and use their creative work in a different context, adopting this attitude as an official stance, I think the irony evaporates. I don't think the volunteers at beer festivals were wearing them ironically.<br /><br />And the thing that I'm most angry about all over again after rereading and reliving my GBBF '06 blog post, is the appalling, offensive way that some of the most senior members of CAMRA expanded upon it, betraying everything Mike Hardman just said. <br /><br />Paula Waters - then chairperson of CAMRA, one of the top two officials in the organisation - stood on stage on the trade day, in front of publicans, brewers, beer journalists and any mainstream media attending, and told them that the Great British Beer Festival was "definitely not for lagerboys".<br /><br />People like Tandleman have taught me that I was wrong to tar all festival volunteers and branch activists with the same brush. But someone like Waters and the views she represents - and airs at the very highest level, on the most high profile day in CAMRA's year - is a cancer at the heart of the organisation that does more to damage the appreciation of real ale than all the big lager brewers combined. Thankfully she's no longer in office. But we all know that people holding her repellent views still hold many senior positions.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03011702209832734676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-25306112235371132852011-02-08T21:29:18.518+00:002011-02-08T21:29:18.518+00:00Anon - I'll take them off your hands with plea...Anon - I'll take them off your hands with pleasure. I've had very few "that's <b>wonderful</b>" moments at JDW's, but I've also had very few "dear God what was <b>that</b>?" moments - and a lot of good beers along the way.<br /><br />And of course, marketing to group A by insulting group B and telling group A how superior they are is a very bad thing[1]. Wychwood were clearly trying to build up a spurious cult appeal by marketing to insecure beer snobs. Can't be doing with that. <b>Bad</b> <a href="http://www.brewdog.com/" rel="nofollow">brewery</a>[2].<br /><br />[1] At the risk of ruining my own jokes, perhaps I should just say that there's no sarcasm here - I do think it's a very bad thing.<br />[2] Sarcasm[3] kicks in around here.<br />[3] Highest form of wit. Yeah, right.Philhttp://ohgoodale.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-50492285759697880932011-02-08T19:29:46.737+00:002011-02-08T19:29:46.737+00:00@Cooking Lager I have to admit when you said natio...@Cooking Lager I have to admit when you said national forums, I thought you meant the AGMs or branch meetings (which suprised me because they arent like that IME) not the web forums (which doesnt in the least surprise me). I mean you can debate all day the characteristics of your average internet forum poster and probably not get very far forward, and the Camra forums are frankly so underutilised as to be next to worthless anyway but I would hate to think anyone took them purely as CAMRA opinion or a majority held opinion among the organisation, simply because CAMRA hosts them.<br /><br />@Fishter totally agree I do seriously think that point shouldnt be lost as its something Pete could have made more of in "Man Walks into the Pub" as well, because you can dump all the stereotypes you like at CAMRAs door, but that tshirt, that ad campaign is from a brewery, and not an insignificant brewery either Wychwood are a subsidiary of Marstons thesedays who clearly dont see their role as appealing only to the "anti lager" types.<br /><br />it would be more interesting IMO than simply raking over CAMRA stereotypes all the time to find out why Wychwood, who have even faced an ASA adjudication on it, and as far as I can tell are the only cask ale producer who use that kind of tone in their advertising, why they feel that campaign works for them.Stonohttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02656315721111561414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-35502335904276624072011-02-08T13:27:28.765+00:002011-02-08T13:27:28.765+00:00You can have my JDW tokens - please, take them all...You can have my JDW tokens - please, take them all.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-22378036728545901592011-02-08T10:44:27.092+00:002011-02-08T10:44:27.092+00:00@Rob, It is not mis-information, it is an opinion....@Rob, It is not mis-information, it is an opinion. Just as yours is opinion. <br /><br />The CAMRA forums are public, free to join, why not let people decide for themselves what the forum is full of?Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-27392297305350200082011-02-08T09:30:50.055+00:002011-02-08T09:30:50.055+00:00Anonymous "I really hate the 'Lagerboy...Anonymous "I really hate the 'Lagerboy' campaign it does CAMRA no favours. In my experience the campaign still has the problem that the majority of its 'characters' hold branch and area positions so this is the portrayal that the general public sees. "<br /><br />Although it's already been mentioned I think I need to emphasise that the 'Lagerboy' campaign was nothing to do with CAMRA. It's all Wychwood!<br />However, it is embraced by a section of the membership as a mascot.Fishterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10196761190239992881noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-3310952916647700492011-02-07T23:53:20.713+00:002011-02-07T23:53:20.713+00:00Mr Protz definately does not speak for all of CAMR...Mr Protz definately does not speak for all of CAMRA!Rob Nicholsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14871887147718814739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-77016361176584818982011-02-07T23:50:18.993+00:002011-02-07T23:50:18.993+00:00>The CAMRA national forums are full of the type...>The CAMRA national forums are full of the type of people that view anyone that enjoys a lager in a truly disgraceful fashion.<br /><br />Sorry Cookie - can't let this one pass. The forums are NOT full of such people as well you know as a frequent poster. A handful maybe, but definately the minority. This is mis-information from Cookie but expected as that appears to be his reason d'etre.Rob Nicholsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14871887147718814739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-84477690615948069782011-02-07T22:03:04.977+00:002011-02-07T22:03:04.977+00:00I'm a devout CAMRA member of 35 years but I...I'm a devout CAMRA member of 35 years but I've also resigned from my local branch committee twice and more recently stood down as branch chairman becasue of the frustrations of trying to get my views across. The 'ticking' wing of CAMRA are probably the most at fault. They refuse to countenance beers from regionals and large breweries and force micros into producing uneccessary new brews just so that they can mark it down on their way to 10,000 scoops or some other ridiculous target. These are the ones who insult everyone who is not in their dysfunctional circle.Birkonianhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02797631050700297107noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-41304364685304343612011-02-07T20:35:46.263+00:002011-02-07T20:35:46.263+00:00I really hate the 'Lagerboy' campaign it d...I really hate the 'Lagerboy' campaign it does CAMRA no favours. In my experience the campaign still has the problem that the majority of its 'characters' hold branch and area positions so this is the portrayal that the general public sees. <br /><br />Also can someone lock Roger Protz in a box and leave him somewhere out of the way. His views are so outdated and the way he gets these cringe worthy sound bites every time CAMRA gets a mention doesn't help either.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-89273634053080119032011-02-07T17:35:04.521+00:002011-02-07T17:35:04.521+00:00I do like the way some CAMRA members take the view...I do like the way some CAMRA members take the views of a brewery (Wychwood's views not there own, or CAMRA's) and impose them upon others like they said what the brewery said. Seems like some of them see the goblin as a bit of a mascot for CAMRA.Ghost Drinkerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00753576955816756710noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-55152792483765056732011-02-07T17:28:52.575+00:002011-02-07T17:28:52.575+00:00I thought Michael Hardman expressed himself very w...I thought Michael Hardman expressed himself very well, and it was a good article overall. <br /><br />I was surprised to read he is only 64. What changes he must have seen in the beer and pub culture of England over a 40 year period.<br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-19707151759534286372011-02-07T17:03:30.906+00:002011-02-07T17:03:30.906+00:00Wetherspoons vouchers are an added bonus and I'...Wetherspoons vouchers are an added bonus and I'm glad I get a bit of saving, but I'd be drinking in there anyway. The main perk of membership in my opinion is discounted/free entry to beer festivals and free pints. Get to even two or three in a year and you can make your money back. But yes, activation of members is a big problem in CAMRA at the moment and its undergoing a "fit for purpose" review as voted for at the national AGM last year, to report by this year in Sheffield AGM.<br /><br />As for Mr Protz, he is well known for launching tirades and making silly comments amongst CAMRA members, but he has a block of loyal supporters which are keeping him at the helm of the GBG. I don't know enough about him to pass judgement either way, but I do tire of his "biscuity" maltsbeersiveknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13293913182389157112noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-75902394749543542012011-02-07T12:46:18.495+00:002011-02-07T12:46:18.495+00:00Oh, Manichean. Never mind.
I don't know about...Oh, <b>Manichean</b>. Never mind.<br /><br />I don't know about joining for the Wetherspoon's vouches. I've just recently joined CAMRA, as it happens. I paid £20, and got a membership pack including JDW's vouchers to the value of... £20. Very welcome, but I haven't actually come out ahead as far as I can see.Philhttp://ohgoodale.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-83890496239077077762011-02-07T12:44:01.183+00:002011-02-07T12:44:01.183+00:00It's just a pity there are vocal individuals w...<i>It's just a pity there are vocal individuals who continue to see things as a Manichean struggle between "proper beer" and "chemical fizz."</i><br /><br />Not just in Manchester, either - some of the most bigoted lager-haters are Southerners.Philhttp://ohgoodale.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-46706615782519012512011-02-07T12:13:21.710+00:002011-02-07T12:13:21.710+00:00Free Wetherspoons vouchers?
Where do I join?Free Wetherspoons vouchers?<br /><br />Where do I join?Conan the Librarian™https://www.blogger.com/profile/01904339261121451779noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-28280230949967211212011-02-07T11:41:41.563+00:002011-02-07T11:41:41.563+00:00One further thought. Whilst there appears to be an...One further thought. Whilst there appears to be an acknowledgement that some CAMRA members see their Campaign as a fight against chemical fizz, this view does appear institutionalised when you look at the national objectives of CAMRA. At a regional level it may be about putting on beer festivals and knocking out magazines. At a national level the main focus of the campaign is the price of a can of lager.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-68533708156491368892011-02-07T10:46:43.606+00:002011-02-07T10:46:43.606+00:00Nothing new in this really though clearly one of t...Nothing new in this really though clearly one of the founders speaks with quite some authority.<br /><br />It is what I and others have said for a long time. And will continue to say. The nutters speak only for themselves and when members are in a position such as Branch Chairman, they should think on a bit before saying daft stuff.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-61118483038675529762011-02-07T10:34:39.837+00:002011-02-07T10:34:39.837+00:00Absolutely, Pete, and many of the more thoughtful ...Absolutely, Pete, and many of the more thoughtful members take exactly the view that Michael Hardman describes. It's just a pity there are vocal individuals who continue to see things as a Manichean struggle between "proper beer" and "chemical fizz."Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-74832702819454776772011-02-07T10:10:27.716+00:002011-02-07T10:10:27.716+00:00Could someone have a word with Dave Brock of North...Could someone have a word with Dave Brock of North London CAMRA?<br /><br /><a href="http://jeffpickthall.blogspot.com/2009/03/self-facilititing-media-nodes-take.html" rel="nofollow">Link here.</a>Jeff Pickthallhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06343140031285101096noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-71571691283718348362011-02-07T09:54:50.195+00:002011-02-07T09:54:50.195+00:00I apologise, Pete, sorry mate.I apologise, Pete, sorry mate.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-68895434672569832002011-02-07T09:47:07.856+00:002011-02-07T09:47:07.856+00:00I love it when you say something really serious an...I love it when you say something really serious and astute and insightful, Cookie. Keeps everyone on their toes.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03011702209832734676noreply@blogger.com