tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post5563078303488192459..comments2023-09-20T12:50:40.208+01:00Comments on Pete Brown: Is anyone still interested in a definition of craft beer?Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03011702209832734676noreply@blogger.comBlogger23125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-3386664219766362172013-05-05T07:33:55.058+01:002013-05-05T07:33:55.058+01:00Craft fairs are boring things I get dragged to, Ar...Craft fairs are boring things I get dragged to, Arts and Craft shops are shops full of shite. I don't think any beer should be associated with that term, although Hovercrafts can be fun.Coxynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-32783710231183973902013-05-03T16:40:53.956+01:002013-05-03T16:40:53.956+01:00To be honest, as a Brewer, I find the whole debate...To be honest, as a Brewer, I find the whole debate a little strange... <br />I produce beers to the best of my ability; I brew to my taste (its my brewery, so why not!?), and I hope that my customers enjoy the beers too. I've even won awards for a lot of my beers. <br />Am I a "Craft Brewer" running a "Craft Brewery" - I've no idea - I'll leave that to others... [Any thoughts Pete?]<br />However, despite enjoying researching and experimenting with all sorts of ingredients, and producing some (hopefully) splendidly esoteric and unusual beers, I still run a commercial operation - my main beers have to sell well in my environment - if they don't, we don't get to brew any more...<br />Yes I produce beers that might well be termed as "Craft", be they in cask, bottle or keg - does the term help me sell the beers - probably not. (Maybe I'm selling to the wrong people?)<br />I think Dan's suggestion that the passion, knowledge and skill of a brewer should shine through is spot on - however, I remember a somewhat fractious debate with some people from Tennents over beer flavour and quality - they were possibly even more passionate and enthusiastic about their raw materials, quality control systems and need for consistency than many micro-brewers that I know, yet many people still deride Tennents' beers... Yet they produce more beer in a week than a whole fist full of micro-brewers annual output, and it all sells - that should tell you something...<br /><br />My conclusion is that we should drink and appreciate whichever beers please us most, and not worry about trying to define or pigeonhole them.Buster Granthttp://www.breconbrewing.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-34716107348565464292013-05-02T09:26:01.841+01:002013-05-02T09:26:01.841+01:00classifications, classifications - its like rock m...classifications, classifications - its like rock music in the eighties and nineties. for me, it culminated in the furore over Jethro Tull collecting the grammy for Best Hard Rock/Metal Performance Vocal or Instrumental "instead of" Metallica - not misplaced "category" classification but inevitable discord created by such notions....Richard E. Simpsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14494981719063340414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-13132175887015334242013-05-02T09:06:29.441+01:002013-05-02T09:06:29.441+01:00hmmmm - as a long time lover of music from all &qu...hmmmm - as a long time lover of music from all "classifications", for some reason all I can think of is Jethro Tull winning hard rock grammy when Metallica were also nominated....Richard E. Simpsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14494981719063340414noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-53965394340036424072013-05-01T11:02:03.934+01:002013-05-01T11:02:03.934+01:00The main thing that annoys me about the rise of th...The main thing that annoys me about the rise of the phrase 'craft beer' is that it feels like people are using this as an excuse to jack up prices. This beer's £6 a pint? Oh well, you know, it's a craft beer, that's just how they are...Tom Snoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-12880564059338295212013-05-01T10:17:55.508+01:002013-05-01T10:17:55.508+01:00I met up with an old friend yesterday. She doesn&#...I met up with an old friend yesterday. She doesn't drink beer - ever, at all - but we still spent a pleasant quarter of an hour talking about microbreweries, craft beer, the proliferation of craft beer bars and the strange slappability of hipsters.<br /><br />I think "craft beer" is going mainstream to about the same extent that "being a craft beer hipster" is going mainstream - and <b>that</b>'s going mainstream in very much the same sense that "being a Rocky Horror fan" went mainstream in the 80s (i.e. we all know what they look like, most of us know at least one, and we all think they're weird). Philhttp://ohgoodale.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-48164489582904766282013-05-01T09:57:02.697+01:002013-05-01T09:57:02.697+01:00Caring about how things taste is a poncy middle cl...Caring about how things taste is a poncy middle class affectation in general Cookie. SLAhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02750653266156249490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-44665262354035570932013-05-01T09:17:16.570+01:002013-05-01T09:17:16.570+01:00Nothing like a craft beer debate to get the bloggi...Nothing like a craft beer debate to get the blogging stats up. The thing about your definition, whilst serviceable, it ignores other pertinent aspects of the market. In the US it is middle class beer as opposed to blue collar macro beers. Class is such a divisive issue in the UK that this obvious feature is often dismissed. The big success of wine was its relatively recent democratisation. Just as beer is becoming less democratic as the beer you drink and bar you drink it in becomes a reflection of whether you went to university or not or been abroad somewhere other than Benidorm. And people think it is going mainstream.Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-56579104787411265612013-05-01T01:18:48.380+01:002013-05-01T01:18:48.380+01:00At the recent Craft Brewers Conference in Washingt...At the recent Craft Brewers Conference in Washington, D.C., Charlie Papazian —founder of the Brewers Association— did not once use the term "craft brewer" in his introductory speech, except when he was referring to the name of the conference itself. Instead, he repeatedly used the term, "small and independent," and, even then, pointedly excluded the term "traditional," the third peg of the BA's definition of "craft brewer." This deliberate usage/non-usage startled me, and I've read no one speculating on what it might mean. THOMAS CIZAUSKAShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16485107199809830204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-704443864636190932013-05-01T00:57:08.919+01:002013-05-01T00:57:08.919+01:00I tend to think of " craft " beer like &...I tend to think of " craft " beer like " pan-fried " food.<br />It's a poncy way of simply charging more for what may or may not be a tasty beer.<br />I couldn't care less how it's made provided it tastes okay.<br />In much the same way I couldn't care if a steak was fried in my wife's bra or a frying pan provided it tastes okay.<br />The craft beer movement is gaining a reputation for expensive experimental beer that drives people away from drinking it in much the same was as breweries drive away people when they call flat,dull brown beer real ale.<br />They're both beer - it's just that some of it is good and a lot of it is shite.Professor Pie-Tinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-26802308787707907692013-04-30T23:49:40.548+01:002013-04-30T23:49:40.548+01:00I think what your definition almost gets to is tha...I think what your definition almost gets to is that craft brewing is about wanting to create something new and unique, and then honing it towards the brewer's idea of perfection. That's the craft part. The thing is that the original UK real ale revolution was the craft brewing of its day - rejecting the status quo and pushing off in a new direction (inspired by the past of course). The fact that the real ale movement now chooses to become the orthodoxy and lay down rules as to what can and can't be in their club is just really sad, and denies the original ethos of the movement, which was about rediscovering taste, quality and originality.M. David Piekelnieanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14467983584678827178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-66932123465046906962013-04-30T23:48:23.260+01:002013-04-30T23:48:23.260+01:00I think what your definition almost gets to is tha...I think what your definition almost gets to is that craft brewing is about wanting to create something new and unique, and then honing it towards the brewer's idea of perfection. That's the craft part. The thing is that the original UK real ale revolution was the craft brewing of its day - rejecting the status quo and pushing off in a new direction (inspired by the past of course). The fact that the real ale movement now chooses to become the orthodoxy and lay down rules as to what can and can't be in their club is just really sad, and denies the original ethos of the movement, which was about rediscovering taste, quality and originality.M. David Piekelnieanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14467983584678827178noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-24954258538251482122013-04-30T22:13:00.896+01:002013-04-30T22:13:00.896+01:00The whole problem is that we in the UK imported th...The whole problem is that we in the UK imported the phrase "craft beer" without importing the definition - which is reasonably serviceable in the US (although not without problems), but useless in the UK. So it didn't have a definition when people like BD started using it, and it's never really acquired one - except the (reasonably serviceable) ostensive definition "something that people who use and value the term 'craft beer' refer to as 'craft beer'".<br /><br />I'm not sure your definition is usable, unfortunately. The fourth and fifth criteria are fine, but the third can't really be called objective - the brewer's 'spirit' must surely be a judgment call (what if the blogger who went round the brewery caught him on an off day?). More important, the 'objective' first and second criteria aren't really objective - or rather, they're factually objective but not objectively ascertainable: they're only knowable if you've got a God's eye view. Since none of us has, they basically reduce to judgment calls as well.<br /><br />Two big questions. First, is 'craft' a descriptor of a beer or of a brewer? (Could a beer you'd praise as 'craft' come from a non-craft brewer? Could a brewer you'd praise as 'craft' turn out a bland, lowest-common-denominator beer?) Second, if 'craft' does apply to brewers, what does 'craft brewer' convey that wouldn't be conveyed by a simpler term of approbation - 'decent brewer', 'competent brewer', 'brewer who knows what they're doing'?Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07009879034507926661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-6931830067724572292013-04-30T22:02:42.866+01:002013-04-30T22:02:42.866+01:00No, we are not. But the marketing people want us t...No, we are not. But the marketing people want us to. That's what it all seems to me. Give me good beer and you can call it what you want, I don't care, I will call it "Good".Pivní Filosofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883511608403454943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-74304986788944843552013-04-30T21:54:08.552+01:002013-04-30T21:54:08.552+01:00@py0: When there's a whole section of beers, e...@py0: When there's a whole section of beers, each of which fits at least one of those categories to some degree, and you need an umbrella term for the lot of them, separate from the beers that don't fit any of the categories. That's the occasion.<br /><br />Dan Shelton's criteria just look like an extension of the "if I like it it's craft" rationale. Every industrial macrobrewery I've ever met has been fastidious about ingredients, applied rigorous quality control and is making the best beer it can of the type of beer it makes -- usually crappy lager.<br /><br />The only breweries I've encountered who would countenance throwing ingredients together and hoping for the best are unmistakably craft. The word often applied to them is "innovative" or "experimental". Sometimes the beer is great; sometimes it isn't, but there's usually a grinning maniac wielding a mash paddle behind it, and that's craft that is.<br /><br />Deciding a brewery's motivation and inner processes for yourself is unhelpfully subjective, IMO.The Beer Nuthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14105708522526153528noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-38718905430113125702013-04-30T20:48:27.151+01:002013-04-30T20:48:27.151+01:00I like your article, and it shows an almost futili...I like your article, and it shows an almost futility to the concept of defining 'Craft Beer', which I agree with. I doubt this is going away however and I like the idea of BA setting a definition to what 'Craft Beer' which is thereby protecting their investments against attempts to hedge in the expansion of the Craft Beer movement (namely brands like Green Valley an ABI claim to be a small local brewery located on an unoccupied patch a ground)<br /><br />Anyone who has had a beer at The Sandlot at Coors field knows that the big guys can make Amazing beer that is worth noting. I expect great things from AC Golden Brewing (also owned by Coors) I don't think the Definition on Independence should be changed though, the definition is not about quality and if it was, who would decide which is better than the others. I Want Nothing to do with the process of declaring quality. however Im infuriated by the exclusion of breweries because of the use of adjuncts and calling it "Traditional" thereby ignoring the fact that they have been adding adjuncts long before Prohibition and the Commercial wars. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-18584281212510162662013-04-30T20:34:36.420+01:002013-04-30T20:34:36.420+01:00Reading the letters page in Camra's What's...Reading the letters page in Camra's What's Brewing was depressing beyond belief. 'No, we're the Popular Front of Judea' springs to mind. What with the real ale zealots and the Brew Dog militia, it would appear they've all forgotten what the hell this is all about: good beer, well made. Here endeth my rant. Great blog btw. I'm in The Beer Writers Guild myself but very rarely write about the stuff these days.John Meddhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10547777949324509522noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-12697589765431169932013-04-30T19:59:54.143+01:002013-04-30T19:59:54.143+01:00At the risk of driving you entirely mental, there ...At the risk of driving you entirely mental, there are a few things to note. <br /><br />(i) "craft" is entirely unnecessary as a concept in relation to beer. All beer is made by industrial process scaled up or down. Handmade beer is an oxymoron as it would be with any boiling fluid. <br /><br />(ii) "craft" is used exclusively as a marketing term of differentiation, not as an informative word in itself. It is important as without it trade organizations cannot get tax breaks and drinks writers (me included) won't get attention but, otherwise, there is little that a nano brewer and Boston Beer have in common other than gathering under the common umbrella with a logo that reads "craft". <br /><br />(iii) "craft" in the UK sense is very different from "craft" in the US sense, to the point I would think they would need a separate line in a dictionary definition. "Craft" in the UK stands in opposition to real where in the US it stands in opposition to macro. Oddly, in each case it takes an incomplete stance as bottled beer is not included in the UK polarization while, as you say, in the US there is little sense of the wee cottage left in either the scale of Boston Brewing or AB-IB's involvement with Goose Island. <br /><br />"Craft" beer is now code for something that is not defined. We should ask ourselves why there no craft wine in an effort to determine if there anything there to define at all. Alanhttp://agoodbeerblog.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-40856329547908802542013-04-30T19:37:57.488+01:002013-04-30T19:37:57.488+01:00Nice post, Pete.
I've just stopped using the ...Nice post, Pete.<br /><br />I've just stopped using the term 'craft beer' as much as possible because it just provokes arguments. Discussions I'm fine with but some people get really fucking angry if you use the term wrong. I mean, offended almost and they're not even the bloody brewers.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03393611989380622061noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-85795866122497176772013-04-30T19:29:38.634+01:002013-04-30T19:29:38.634+01:00I can't think of an occasion when you might us...I can't think of an occasion when you might use "craft beer" when you would not be better off using something more specific. Microbrewed. New Wave. American Influenced. New World Hops. Cult. Experimental.<br /><br />At least we can agree what those words means. Words like Craft and Artisanal is just a load of old marketing dribble.py0noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-21090643947206664962013-04-30T19:29:38.503+01:002013-04-30T19:29:38.503+01:00I can't think of an occasion when you might us...I can't think of an occasion when you might use "craft beer" when you would not be better off using something more specific. Microbrewed. New Wave. American Influenced. New World Hops. Cult. Experimental.<br /><br />At least we can agree what those words means. Words like Craft and Artisanal is just a load of old marketing dribble.py0noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-66334367083859668592013-04-30T19:13:59.913+01:002013-04-30T19:13:59.913+01:00Your last paragraph is all that is needed Pete. Di...Your last paragraph is all that is needed Pete. Dictionaries are marvellous things! ;-)Mark Seamanhttp://www.revolutionsbrewing.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-81409716818644329682013-04-30T18:59:24.188+01:002013-04-30T18:59:24.188+01:00Frankly I think your loose "not mainstream la...Frankly I think your loose "not mainstream lager" definition may be more useful, even if it's a negative definition. Craft beer with all its connotations is/was a reaction against lack of variety and lack of character in available beers. And it has been an international movement, as much from the UK as the US. Which is why it's weird that it's become a nasty word for many real ale types. CAMRA is a branch of the same movement, formed about the same time Anchor Steam was, er, picking up steam. Most cask ale is craft beer and always has been. Dismissing "craft" as kegged (or over-hopped, or overpriced, etc.)"is inaccurate and only serves narrow political purposes.Joe Stangehttp://www.thirstypilgrim.comnoreply@blogger.com