tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post2516562861778364812..comments2023-09-20T12:50:40.208+01:00Comments on Pete Brown: Another long post about craft beer. Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03011702209832734676noreply@blogger.comBlogger47125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-61733416161943868492016-09-25T06:57:42.245+01:002016-09-25T06:57:42.245+01:00With the explosion of the craft beer scene over th...With the explosion of the craft beer scene over the past few years many breweries are being forced to pull out of states in order to keep up with the demand for their beer.<br /><a href="https://www.facebook.com/NMDBCusco" rel="nofollow">Craft beer</a><br />Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-74269406610636313182014-03-28T06:29:52.250+00:002014-03-28T06:29:52.250+00:00Love the craft..It is really cool. Keep it up
Love the craft..It is really cool. Keep it up<br />Jennifferhttp://www.debtsettlers.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-57433017779217350112013-12-19T13:21:07.097+00:002013-12-19T13:21:07.097+00:00A very interesting and thought provoking article. ...A very interesting and thought provoking article. I sincerly hope that quality will out.<br />Ian ClayAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-6093542772722199752013-12-16T14:36:35.153+00:002013-12-16T14:36:35.153+00:00Very good.
Anyone would think you did this for a l...Very good.<br />Anyone would think you did this for a living...Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-92143640070669593792013-12-15T11:53:52.841+00:002013-12-15T11:53:52.841+00:00I like the craft beer/indie music connection, but ...I like the craft beer/indie music connection, but disagree that indie has all but died. It's thriving, but not widely popular. Oasis = Britpop ≠ Indie. Try Ariel Pink, Allo Darlin', Fossil Collective, Gliss, Staves and anything on KEXP.<br /><br />Craft beer, craft food, craft pottery. They are all created by talented people, who are led by product quality and customer experience. <br /><br />Loved the blog Pete, keep 'em comin'.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-62078208220527920202013-12-02T12:02:24.139+00:002013-12-02T12:02:24.139+00:00Words like 'craft' and 'artisan' r...Words like 'craft' and 'artisan' remind me at times of the <br />guff that supermarkets put on labels like 'from farmers who share our values'. Until there is a recognisable logo from a certifiable scheme like there is for Fair Trade products and Soil Association organic products, I suspect there will be producers who abuse the terminology in order to promote their product at a premium.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-62372222239397757732013-12-01T22:37:12.278+00:002013-12-01T22:37:12.278+00:00Jon - it's true that we make buying decisions ...Jon - it's true that we make buying decisions based partly on our perception of the brewery, which itself is sometimes based on very limited information. So, between apparently similar beers from unknown breweries, I'll probably choose the one whose label features white on black sans serif lettering over the one with a nice picture of an osprey in a roundel on a green background - and I'll take the osprey over the cartoon of a fat man sitting on the toilet. The first of these (imaginary) labels suggests 'craft beer', the second suggests 'nice but unadventurous', and the third says 'stay away'.<br /><br />But even if the image of 'craft' is a reality, it is just that, an image. It's not something that can ever be <b>defined</b>.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07009879034507926661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-27398764670491309562013-11-30T20:00:45.982+00:002013-11-30T20:00:45.982+00:00It doesn't really have to be a blind tasting. ...It doesn't really have to be a blind tasting. I don't know about you but I, and I believe most people, do not do a background check on every new brewery I come across before making a purchase decision. I buy beer hoping, trusting that the people that make it aren't don't do anything I may find contrary to my values.<br /><br />That said, I evaluate beer for the beer itself, naturally, what I know about the company, either by what they choose to tell me through their marketing, or what I can find out on my own, will affect my decision to give them my business and my support. So no, the product is never an entity independent of the producer (once again, I can give you the example of BrewDog, good beers in general, but sold with a marketing that does not create in me the desire to buy them).<br /><br />Craft is not useless, it's a brand, which, as you say, is clearly being use to sell stuff. Like every brand, it has been invested with a series of values, and that is actually the meaningful thing about craft, not the word, but the values that have been attributed to it. You can theoretically substitute the word "craft" by another, invest it with the same values, and it will have the basically same meaning in the eyes of the consumer. <br /><br />The point I want to make is that craft is not something tangible, and pretty much every definition I've seen is either arbitrary, a dogma of convenience or something that expects us to be able to get into the minds of the producers, which is impossible, or trust them blindly, which is not wise.<br /><br />So, to wrap it up, if a (good) company makes good beer, how they choose to call it, it's largely irrelevant; if calling it "Craft" helps them sell a few more bottles, good for them. Pivní Filosofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883511608403454943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-1823530842775314912013-11-30T13:59:03.322+00:002013-11-30T13:59:03.322+00:00Another interesting piece Pete and one that defini...Another interesting piece Pete and one that definitely adds something to the debate around defining craft beer.<br /><br />The points I'd make here are around GK, Brains et al bringing out their craft ranges. For me, this is merely a case of marketeers leading the process, and in these instances therefore craft beer is merely a marketing term, nothing else. <br /><br />The question for me really is why they bother to do this - why have GK installed a £750k microbrewery on site in order to produce a range of beers that will sell probably less than 1% of their core range and so add nothing much to their revenue. They package them with contemporary labels in 330ml bottles so that they can proudly sit alongside other craft beers in specialist shops (although many specialist shops may reject them precisely because they are made by GK). The only reason therefore is one of brand image, marketing and wanting to be down with the new kids on the block, or up with the latest trends in marketing speak. GK will never stop making bland IPA and it will continue to be their best selling beer for many years after this 'craft' experiment has been quietly ditched. <br /><br />And to be honest, what is wrong with that? They are a large regional brewer who make a range of very traditional real ales. God knows I hate most of their beers and their pubs and so would not defend them on their record.<br /><br />BUT, my point is why try to be something they are not? This is actually what annoys me so much about regionals doing craft ranges. I think it lacks integrity and it actually lacks confidence in themselves. Innovation is certainly important to keep businesses moving and I wouldn't advocate standing still producing boring ales forever. But I would advocate making any innovation you embark on relevant to what you are, your history and ethos, rather than what you think the market wants. To me, the cases of Brains, Thwaites, GK etc. almost seem like a bunch of young marketeers who suddenly wish they worked for the likes of Brewdog or Camden Town and have pestered their bosses into giving them some new toys to play with. I think these craft ranges will be gone within a couple of years. <br />Is the GK core range craft? I wouldn't say so but that's mainly because I think the beer is terrible quality.<br /><br />Incidentally, I have not tried the new GK craft range and this was never a comment on their quality. I have tried some of the Brains craft range and it was pretty decent. If it didn't have Brains on the label then I would've assumed it came from a hot new upstart brewery.JamesHnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-64916983660177127662013-11-30T13:34:52.969+00:002013-11-30T13:34:52.969+00:00BEER DRINKERS…..Could anyone who drinks Craft ‘Keg...BEER DRINKERS…..Could anyone who drinks Craft ‘Keg’ Beer in the UK (small batch tasty beer from a keg, not real ale) please lend us a hand and fill out this short survey on Craft Beer [ https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/WKH3N8N ] Its final year university research for a UK, Yorkshire based brewer. Thank you!! Laura Racenoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-90204923439664960722013-11-30T11:13:28.593+00:002013-11-30T11:13:28.593+00:00@Pivní Filosof: I'll grant you that in your en...@Pivní Filosof: I'll grant you that in your entirely hypothetical, totally blind beer tasting the liquid will stand on its own. In <b>reality</b> the drinker has access to a great deal more than that. This is, after all, <b>what marketeers do</b>. They create a setting for the beer which does indeed influence subjective valuation of the product. It's the <b>whole point</b> of beer marketing. Anyone who claims to be able to evaluate beer outside this umbra is, I'd suggest, deluding themselves. We're all (unless we're some kind of sociopath) influenced by this kind of stuff.<br /><br />It would be an ignorant, arrogant form of egotism to assert that 'I find the beer good, therefore it is a good thing.' With the corollary, 'that's all you need to know'.<br /><br />That "Craft" may be inchoate, or ambiguous, or disintegrating doesn't mean that the term is useless. It's clearly <b>being used</b>. A good student of the beer market won't dismiss it as meaningless.StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-66109146168695958432013-11-30T00:42:03.667+00:002013-11-30T00:42:03.667+00:00"everything that isn't Carling or John Sm..."everything that isn't Carling or John Smith's Smooth (and a couple of others)"<br /><br />This is by far the best definition of "craft" I've ever heard and I propose that everyone start using it.Chrisnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-90202491797023640262013-11-29T15:59:52.378+00:002013-11-29T15:59:52.378+00:00It all depends on how you see things, and when you...It all depends on how you see things, and when you see them. <br /><br />Say you are given a beer from a brewery you know nothing about and you like it (or dislike it). Later you learn that the brewery is owned by a bunch of c*nts (or by people who donate all the profits to an orphanage, whatever). Will that change in anyway the opinion you've given about the beer? It will sure affect your willingness to support that brewery, to give them your money (which, at the end of the day, for a company is the most important thing), but the quality beer itself, its flavour and the effect it had in your senses will not have changed. <br /><br />I don't want to accuse them of being c*nts, but I have a somewhat similar problem with BrewDog. Their marketing and childish rhetoric makes me not want to buy their beers, even though I believe some of them are pretty good. Pivní Filosofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883511608403454943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-51336817524167379292013-11-29T13:13:59.499+00:002013-11-29T13:13:59.499+00:00That is a very narrow use of the term "good&q...That is a very narrow use of the term "good". Which used to be quite a big word. The idea that products are ever truly considered, by anyone, free of their setting, seems odd to me. It's part of a rather solipsistic view of the consumer/product/producer interaction. Which rejects the "Craft" thing, not so much because the term is hijacked and devalued by marketeers, but having more to do with some sort of fetishism of the product. It's all (all of it) in the liquid? Utter nonsense.StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-6922803224537035342013-11-29T12:00:17.174+00:002013-11-29T12:00:17.174+00:00Isn’t this whole thing about craft covering everyo...Isn’t this whole thing about craft covering everyone and their mother a bit like the way Speciality Beers went from being genuinely interesting beers coming in from abroad to one-dimensional holiday beers such as Peroni or Estrella? Adrian Tierney-Joneshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05421802854011395300noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-5621120279509960842013-11-29T07:37:07.304+00:002013-11-29T07:37:07.304+00:00@StringersBeer.
If we speak about the beer, and n...@StringersBeer.<br /><br />If we speak about the beer, and nothing but the beer. Yes. It's all about taste. <br /><br />The company that makes it, on the other hand, that's another thing. If there's something you don't like about the company, you may choose not to buy their products or give them any kind of support, but if the beer is good, then it's good.Pivní Filosofhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17883511608403454943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-8002893692734462972013-11-28T22:23:19.274+00:002013-11-28T22:23:19.274+00:00the only criterion for judging beer - how it taste...the only criterion for judging beer - how it tastes? <br />If it was made by forced child labourers boiling kittens in a unicorn?StringersBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12573068197944669997noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-24843947825215626652013-11-28T00:39:42.663+00:002013-11-28T00:39:42.663+00:00"Are craft beers identifiable (in the glass?)..."Are craft beers identifiable (in the glass?)"<br /><br />If you can't drink it and identify it as an excellent, tasty, well-made beer, it doesn't matter whether it's called craft or not. Really, I know it's a cliche, but it's a cliche because it's true: the only criterion for judging beer is not who makes it, but how good it tastes.Martyn Cornellhttp://zythophile.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-71365900131276211542013-11-27T00:22:22.558+00:002013-11-27T00:22:22.558+00:00Are craft beers identifiable (in the glass?), or i...Are craft <b>beers</b> identifiable (in the glass?), or is it <b>breweries</b> that we can identify as craft or not? Or is it just a marketing label which sometimes gets attached to certain beers (and brewers) and sometimes doesn't?<br /><br />I don't always agree with James Watt, to put it mildly, but the more I think about this the more I think he was right to throw a strop about Blue Moon. It's hard to say that BM isn't craft; apart from anything else, if we ruled out BM (because it's a megacorp beer dressed up as an indie), where would that leave Sharp's? But if BM <b>is</b> craft, then craft has no meaning other than as a marketing proposition: "if you like the kind of thing that's sold as craft beer, this is the kind of thing you'll like". I don't think we should necessarily celebrate Greene King adopting that marketing proposition, given how empty it is; tomorrow it could be AB-Inbev who take it up.Philhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07009879034507926661noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-72310122227088859562013-11-26T19:09:17.759+00:002013-11-26T19:09:17.759+00:00Budweiser is a traditional craft and always has be...Budweiser is a traditional craft and always has been as it is exactly the same now as how I was drinking it a long time ago. Doombar is the same but it is one of the biggest selling cask ales in the country. Therefore it is mainstream. Old S H used to be craft traditional until they were bought out by Greene King and changed. Greene king IPA is not craft and completely mainstream. Goose Island Lager is Craft Traditional as it is brewed by a mainstream brewery. I agree with other entries. Thomasnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-59673706401871371722013-11-26T09:23:26.724+00:002013-11-26T09:23:26.724+00:00Unclepuble makes a valid point but raises another ...Unclepuble makes a valid point but raises another important question in my mind.<br /><br />If the dictionary definition of 'craft' is ultimately integral to a definition of 'craft beer' then it would be difficult to accredit any brewer being craft or otherwise purely on the assumption of their size, and thus manual or automated production techniques being deployed.<br /><br />It is my understanding that many of the large/super regional brewers are taking a different (manual?) production approach in their 'craft' breweries to create the 'feel' and 'touch' associated with crafting. So perhaps it's not always just a marketing exercise.<br /><br />I agree with Pete, that some of those breweries referenced are making superb 'craft' beers with this approach. So you'd really have to segment breweries into two constituent parts to avoid stereotyping one way or the other.<br /><br />The solution has to be taking each beer on its own merit and judging it accordingly. How we, or the consumer judge and define it will no doubt continue to be debated but no doubt quality of product (and, if we're honest) marketing will both win out.TomsonBeerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09841002539720850116noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-21967529538709552042013-11-25T23:51:46.025+00:002013-11-25T23:51:46.025+00:00Sam Adams and Sierra Nevada used to be craft beer....Sam Adams and Sierra Nevada used to be craft beer. They are approaching macro-beer production and distribution. <br /><br />Some don't consider them craft even though it is good. Craft to means well-made good tasting beer using malt, wheat, rye, yeast, hops, and water that tastes good. Much like whisky/whiskey.kaiserhoghttps://www.blogger.com/profile/18214148630816519490noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-25816325053206936942013-11-25T23:48:26.873+00:002013-11-25T23:48:26.873+00:00Uncle Puble, fair point - but you can only differe...Uncle Puble, fair point - but you can only differentiate between brewers on such criteria if you've been round the breweries and seen how they brew... have you? Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03011702209832734676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-44047843863805429032013-11-25T21:56:57.381+00:002013-11-25T21:56:57.381+00:00When we talk about craft beer, are we talking abou...When we talk about craft beer, are we talking about making beer, or are we talking about marketing beer?<br /><br />I think we're talking about marketing beer. That is no bad thing, marketing is an endlessly fascinating topic, but lets not confuse it for a minute with talking about the beer itself.pyonoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-41397058277348973222013-11-25T20:19:40.703+00:002013-11-25T20:19:40.703+00:00I find your analogy of craft Beer mirroring the in...I find your analogy of craft Beer mirroring the indie scene refreshing, however I dont agree with Greene King etc being craft or your definition of craft for that matter, Craft has been defined quite clearly its definition is "An occupation or Trade requiring Manual dexterity or Artistic Skill" this in tern means something the Crafter has a lot of manual input into. Therefore Size is very important! as is the touch, feel & decision making of the person doing the craft, to make the crafted product. When Craft is added to beer I see a muddled definition of craft, that is no more than a throw away term. Craft should not define style, flavour, or quality it should however define the production method, as a craftsman or woman does their craft by sight touch smell & intuition not by automation, & a crafts person (I'll go PC now) turns out fantastic items most of the time be it a table or a beer (depends on their craft) but the Big brewers have no right to craft, as automation takes away the craft of the brewer, & also adds anonymity.<br /><br />To be Craft what ever it is beer, furniture, clay pots, you have to know the name of the person how has made the item and be sure it has been made by hand & with the skill required to make that bespoke item by hand. you can then talk about the master crafts persons who can make that same item again and again at will by hand! unclepublehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08345676777889131571noreply@blogger.com