tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post7065354619658569903..comments2023-09-20T12:50:40.208+01:00Comments on Pete Brown: Real Ale - Preference or Dogma?Anonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03011702209832734676noreply@blogger.comBlogger104125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-41586058114433143582013-10-15T09:32:52.666+01:002013-10-15T09:32:52.666+01:00The ONLY way you would KNOW if a pub was using a c...The ONLY way you would KNOW if a pub was using a cask breather would be that you no longer get rancid pints.<br /><br />The handpump is a pretty primitive device and when the publican is pulling a pint, that pint has to be replaced by something. With the CAMRA approved method, it is replaced with cellar air. Cellar air is full of beer spoiling microorganisms and oxygen. Both of which spoil the beer. Oxygen causes oxidation which can make the beer taste like wet cardboard. The presence of oxygen also means that acetobacter will go to work on the beer, turning it to vinegar.<br /><br />A cask breather is a very simple device. It is inserted into the shive hole and hooked up to carbon dioxide. When the publican pulls a pint, that pint is replaced with a pint of CO2 vapor. CO2 being inert has no reaction on the beer whatsoever. This is done at atmospheric pressure, therefore there is also NO effect on the condition of the beer.<br /><br />Hype and hysteria for sure and yes, mainly by people who don't know what the fuck they are talking about.Jeff Rosenmeierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11161056271094806312noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-57407823605244613602013-10-14T20:33:42.801+01:002013-10-14T20:33:42.801+01:00Surely if a pub served beer with a cask breather, ...Surely if a pub served beer with a cask breather, you'd KNOW. In fact if cask breathers did what so many people said they do, we'd all know.<br /><br />That no one seems to ever know when a pub is serving beer with a cask breather without asking, suggests to me that there's a lot of hype and hysteria about them and a hell of a lot of lack of actual knowledge.<br /><br />I'm not saying they're good. I'm not saying they're bad. Just that it's quite obvious that no one actually knows what they do.Andrew Bowdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16537107239353802646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-14103231940645228742013-09-11T20:59:55.984+01:002013-09-11T20:59:55.984+01:00seems to be a lot of drivel about why CAMRA was fo...seems to be a lot of drivel about why CAMRA was formed,it was formed because traditional beer properly conditioned in the cellar was becoming a rarer and rarer product.The market being flooded by tasteless gassy cold keg beer.It was not formed as someone said as real ale was very poor,though some probably was as is true today.I was a member for years and joined to help preserve real ale, and yes I was a militant who fought against those in the organisation who would have us accept the cask breather,but through my activities I came to appreciate many foreign beers especially belgian which do not qualify as real ale(a very british form of beer)though many are unfiltered and are bottle conditioned,however if i ever suspected that a pub was selling beer through a cask breather I would stay well clearAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15667991221695427264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-44963611382948997082013-09-11T20:59:27.518+01:002013-09-11T20:59:27.518+01:00seems to be a lot of drivel about why CAMRA was fo...seems to be a lot of drivel about why CAMRA was formed,it was formed because traditional beer properly conditioned in the cellar was becoming a rarer and rarer product.The market being flooded by tasteless gassy cold keg beer.It was not formed as someone said as real ale was very poor,though some probably was as is true today.I was a member for years and joined to help preserve real ale, and yes I was a militant who fought against those in the organisation who would have us accept the cask breather,but through my activities I came to appreciate many foreign beers especially belgian which do not qualify as real ale(a very british form of beer)though many are unfiltered and are bottle conditioned,however if i ever suspected that a pub was selling beer through a cask breather I would stay well clearAnonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15667991221695427264noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-8209677874346658612011-11-27T15:47:19.950+00:002011-11-27T15:47:19.950+00:00In my opinion, it depends entirely on the beer. As...In my opinion, it depends entirely on the beer. As Peter pointed out in Hops and Glory IPAs originally were not 'real ales' and from the recent surge of them in pubs, I don't think they would suit a keg. Saying that Tetley nitrorubbish vs Tetley cask... <br /><br />I am a CAMRA member but do not know any fellow members who are so hardline. We go to the Sheffield and York Tap regularly and indulge in keg beer. It's nice. And so are many cask beers. Both have their purposes.Skippyhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07356514052037991214noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-50820778316571256312010-12-31T17:11:50.718+00:002010-12-31T17:11:50.718+00:00I'm sure I've read the exact same post bef...I'm sure I've read the exact same post before somewhere...Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-5867100415697820612010-12-13T00:15:06.745+00:002010-12-13T00:15:06.745+00:00My wife and I attended our first CAMRA event last ...My wife and I attended our first CAMRA event last night. Let me put this in context; I like beer, my wife likes beer. I waste my time with a website that reviews the worst pubs in my home town, telling the punters which to avoid and why.<br /><br />I’ve travelled, lived and studied in North America, the Far East and Europe so my tastes run from Bohemian Pilsners, via American craft brewers to developing a particular fondness for East European porters and stouts. We live in the centre of a large Northern city. We have a friend who has a real ale pub right in the middle of town. He’s in the running for our CAMRA local pub of the year, and in the spirit of gerrymandering we thought we’d join up and vote for him.<br /><br />Having watched a Hornby train destroy much of Corrie we decided to risk a CAMRA wander. It’s destroyed my life. I now realise that I have a script inside me, as desperate to get out as the Alien in John Hurt’s stomach. It’s going to be called The Tickers and it’s going to be as big as The Office. I can’t rest until it’s been written.<br /><br />Picture the scene, a real ale bar filled with team CAMRA. Checked shirts, bad hair, drooling over the Jaipur. Drinks are ordered, not with any apparent desire to enjoy the experience. A series of halves are parked on the bar. Aromas are savoured, clarity is checked. A finger is dipped into a freshly drawn half, then rubbed on the inside of a cheek [for tasting, not scratching]. A pub full of people apparently passionate about beer, yet displaying all of the warmth of butterfly collectors discussing humane killing. <br /><br />Now we’re not teenagers, in fact, God help us I’m over 40, yet I was a mere child in this gathering. Not only a child by calender, but a child in attitude, dress, demeanour, mannerisms. Mrs Pubwatcher will tell you that I dress like a Grandfather. Team CAMRA dressed like his gardner. I’ve always regarded CAMRA as something of a middle-class pass time, something confirmed by the accents asking for a sample of every hand pull beer on the bar before settling on the first one. However, if some poor soul had walked into the middle of this gathering and looked rather than listened they’d have assumed it was a gathering of tramps, slowly eking out their halfs to make them last all night.<br /><br />Beer is about enjoyment, relaxation, noise, laughter. It’s about taste, pleasure, and friends. Where did it all go wrong ? They must have been normal once. They must have laughed once, they can’t always have dressed like the wurzels. <br /><br />Moving into Attenborough mode we stepped back and watched the complete lack of enjoyment associated with every sup. Wilde said that the cynic knows the price of everything but the value of nothing, well this gathering seemed to understand the specific gravity of everything, but tasted nothing - other than to decide whether the hops were Kentish or Saaz. <br /><br />WHO CARES ! Beer, and drinking ought to be about pleasure, taste. A social and a sensual experience, yet team CAMRA seemed to engage in the drinking equivalent of spending time under the duvet with Claudia Schiffer using a ruler and compasses to compare the radius of her left and right nipples.<br /><br />Yet we’ll be back. It was one of the oddest nights of my life, but next time I ll be prepared. I can’t resist the prospect of creating a living Bateman cartoon in the style of the man who. This one will be the man who ordered a pint of John Smiths during a CAMRA wander. Of course the best part will be the reply from our bar’s patron ‘what the f**k for’ ?Ski Testhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00171313421290526155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-59143106957554429002010-12-13T00:14:42.378+00:002010-12-13T00:14:42.378+00:00My wife and I attended our first CAMRA event last ...My wife and I attended our first CAMRA event last night. Let me put this in context; I like beer, my wife likes beer. I waste my time with a website that reviews the worst pubs in my home town, telling the punters which to avoid and why.<br /><br />I’ve travelled, lived and studied in North America, the Far East and Europe so my tastes run from Bohemian Pilsners, via American craft brewers to developing a particular fondness for East European porters and stouts. We live in the centre of a large Northern city. We have a friend who has a real ale pub right in the middle of town. He’s in the running for our CAMRA local pub of the year, and in the spirit of gerrymandering we thought we’d join up and vote for him.<br /><br />Having watched a Hornby train destroy much of Corrie we decided to risk a CAMRA wander. It’s destroyed my life. I now realise that I have a script inside me, as desperate to get out as the Alien in John Hurt’s stomach. It’s going to be called The Tickers and it’s going to be as big as The Office. I can’t rest until it’s been written.<br /><br />Picture the scene, a real ale bar filled with team CAMRA. Checked shirts, bad hair, drooling over the Jaipur. Drinks are ordered, not with any apparent desire to enjoy the experience. A series of halves are parked on the bar. Aromas are savoured, clarity is checked. A finger is dipped into a freshly drawn half, then rubbed on the inside of a cheek [for tasting, not scratching]. A pub full of people apparently passionate about beer, yet displaying all of the warmth of butterfly collectors discussing humane killing. <br /><br />Now we’re not teenagers, in fact, God help us I’m over 40, yet I was a mere child in this gathering. Not only a child by calender, but a child in attitude, dress, demeanour, mannerisms. Mrs Pubwatcher will tell you that I dress like a Grandfather. Team CAMRA dressed like his gardner. I’ve always regarded CAMRA as something of a middle-class pass time, something confirmed by the accents asking for a sample of every hand pull beer on the bar before settling on the first one. However, if some poor soul had walked into the middle of this gathering and looked rather than listened they’d have assumed it was a gathering of tramps, slowly eking out their halfs to make them last all night.<br /><br />Beer is about enjoyment, relaxation, noise, laughter. It’s about taste, pleasure, and friends. Where did it all go wrong ? They must have been normal once. They must have laughed once, they can’t always have dressed like the wurzels. <br /><br />Moving into Attenborough mode we stepped back and watched the complete lack of enjoyment associated with every sup. Wilde said that the cynic knows the price of everything but the value of nothing, well this gathering seemed to understand the specific gravity of everything, but tasted nothing - other than to decide whether the hops were Kentish or Saaz. <br /><br />WHO CARES ! Beer, and drinking ought to be about pleasure, taste. A social and a sensual experience, yet team CAMRA seemed to engage in the drinking equivalent of spending time under the duvet with Claudia Schiffer using a ruler and compasses to compare the radius of her left and right nipples.<br /><br />Yet we’ll be back. It was one of the oddest nights of my life, but next time I ll be prepared. I can’t resist the prospect of creating a living Bateman cartoon in the style of the man who. This one will be the man who ordered a pint of John Smiths during a CAMRA wander. Of course the best part will be the reply from our bar’s patron ‘what the f**k for’ ?Ski Testhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00171313421290526155noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-69892593099340818602010-11-28T17:15:21.823+00:002010-11-28T17:15:21.823+00:00At the end of the 18th century it became common to...At the end of the 18th century it became common to add finings to ale to aid the clearing and settling process. This was a revolution, from this point on there would be clear beers and a lot less in the way of digestive issues I suspect. <br /><br />If we though were to actively condemn and ignore all forms of technical production progress we would indeed have to ban finings also.... They do not represent the traditional way to brew... or do they? Wooden barrels vesus metal barrels? Aluminium versus steel? <br /><br />I am not sure that excessive action would be so widely accepted as the hatred oft felt towards the Co2 assistance used in many cellars.<br /><br />Progress is a necessity and for a large ale organisation of CAMRA's standing not to allow this in their ever wisened thinking pattern is very short sighted. Progress is often good... embrace it... or wither.Graffikinoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-34807825265931215042010-11-16T18:16:54.118+00:002010-11-16T18:16:54.118+00:00The Beer in the Euston tap is very good. Last time...The Beer in the Euston tap is very good. Last time we went we had some from a bottle and some out of a tap in the wall (may have been a a bear or duck on the the tap) all were very good. We also had a natter and lovely chat about Frank Sidebottom and then some nice beer from tap this time I think it's tasted of lost of things and was nice. We then had some pizza which was also nice and then listened to the Cure which was also very good.<br />I didn't see anyone with a camra.BLTPhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06564846497205095201noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-13044723666265792852010-11-16T09:54:25.828+00:002010-11-16T09:54:25.828+00:00Come on folks. This thread eems to be running out ...Come on folks. This thread eems to be running out of steam a little. There are still some valid points to be made. I think we need further comment and discussion. Not least because I've got £5 riding on this topic reaching 100 comments.Sat In A Pubhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08123038980796000837noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-92167277650293343892010-11-16T08:26:14.544+00:002010-11-16T08:26:14.544+00:00As a long standing CAMRA member from the 1970s I c...As a long standing CAMRA member from the 1970s I can remember the dark days when the mass marketing of chemically enhanced keg products very nearly led to the death of beers with flavour and regional identity. The recent re-emergence of the term 'keg' <br />therefore sends shivers down the spine and it will be culturally very difficult for the survivors of those dark times to adopt the casual 'I don't care how it's served' attitude displayed in comments on this blog<br />However, we are now in different times and looking back, the issues I had with 'keg' were<br />- The products lacked flavour, particularly as they were served cold<br />- They were overly fizzy due to crude application of too much CO2<br />- They were snapped up by lazy landlords who couldn't be bothered looking after beer<br />- They used inferior ingredients compared to many of the traditional brewers<br />- They focussed corporate investment on marketing at the expense of product development<br />- They would ultimately have led to a loss of craft brewing skills through the adoption of scientific process automation<br />Looking behind the 2010 version of keg, you will find a very different world which typically includes:<br />- Beers with a huge amount of flavour representing a full and expanded range of beer styles<br />- Brewers who seek out quality ingredients<br />- Interested and engaged outlets who are an integral part of the craft beer movement<br />- Beers which will stand up to and maybe even benefit from, chilled dispense<br />- A proliferation of skilled brewers who share knowledge and experience<br />A very different world and one in which even an old CAMRA believer, like myself, might be tempted to try a pint of Brewdog or similar from a keg. Just the one, mind you!newsfromthenorthhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16201238667102425734noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-19575423582229453272010-11-14T08:14:43.652+00:002010-11-14T08:14:43.652+00:00Jeff - I have already apologised to for misplaced ...Jeff - I have already apologised to for misplaced remarks through too much of the wrong mix of booze. (These things do happen and I dare say I won't be the first or last, not that that's an excuse). You were included in that general apology and if that was not clear, happy to repeat it and make it clear now. When I get things wrong I apologise. No ifs or buts, but a straight apology which you now have. I hope you accept it.<br /><br />As for general ignorance. Up to you and others to decide, but in terms of what you do, I've always said I want to try your keg beers and will when I see them.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-46749297983029775732010-11-13T17:51:31.983+00:002010-11-13T17:51:31.983+00:00Tandyman wrote to Jeff Rosenmeier: "If you a...<i> Tandyman wrote to Jeff Rosenmeier: "If you are as dead as his beer or his reasoning"</i><br /><br />Tandyman, come on down we'll break out the hymocytometer and a bit of methylene blue and you can tell me how dead my beer is.<br /><br />Please keep your ignorance to yourself, it is embarrassing.Jeff Rosenmeierhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14394121696731343956noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-18397411655127778822010-11-13T13:22:33.981+00:002010-11-13T13:22:33.981+00:00>Excuse me - but a ban on cask breathers IS OFF...>Excuse me - but a ban on cask breathers IS OFFICIAL CAMRA POLICY<br /><br />I know and it represents the view of the hard liners who are able to attend the AGM :-(Rob Nicholsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/14871887147718814739noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-38659755436987470682010-11-13T11:43:22.501+00:002010-11-13T11:43:22.501+00:00Also coming a bit late to this.... As Camra member...Also coming a bit late to this.... As Camra members, we often struggle to read What's Brewing, but nor do we take it that seriously. As you know, we've delighted in beers stored and dispensed in all manner of ways. There are some excellent points about the false dichotomy between keg and cask flavour-wise, and there are indeed many excellent keg beers these days.<br /><br />However, I do have some sympathy for the thin end of the wedge argument. I think Flaggonofale made a really good point earlier, which highlights why CAMRA was needed in the first place. We have something special here, not just the existence of cask ale but the mainstreaming; the fact that even mediocre pubs feel they ought to serve it (some of them might be better off not doing if they can't look after <br />it, but that's another story).<br /><br />If the price we have to pay for that is a few idiots (to whom few people even in CAMRA listen) making the occasional silly comment, I'll live with that.Boakhttp://Www.boakandbailey.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-27829447959491337392010-11-12T16:55:38.423+00:002010-11-12T16:55:38.423+00:00How can keg be bad when the most wonderful beers f...How can keg be bad when the most wonderful beers from the US are suited for keg format? Also the best beers I've had in Europe this year - Narke; Struise, etc have been from keg format. <br /><br />The top beers in the world are often served by keg when they are available on draught. The notion that keg is bad is not helpful for the industry at all.Thomashttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04383343727650548268noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-8537523561041656192010-11-12T15:30:40.173+00:002010-11-12T15:30:40.173+00:00easy mistake to make given the evidence presented ...easy mistake to make given the evidence presented by a google search...<br />I just tried 'Champion Beer of Britain 2004' and didn't find anything that obviously mentioned Pale Rider.crownbrewerstuhttp://www.crownbrewery.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-19108789337188189892010-11-12T14:06:24.449+00:002010-11-12T14:06:24.449+00:00Believe it or not, I originally typed Silver in th...Believe it or not, I originally typed Silver in that comment and then thought I'd do a double check on the internet just to make sure I remembered correctly. <br /><br />So I did a <a href="http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=greene+king+ipa+champion+beer+of+britain&" rel="nofollow">search on Google</a> and on cursory glance it appeared that Greene King IPA had won. I say cursory glance. If you look at most of those results and missed the single one that mentions "runner up", you'd have typed what I did!<br /><br />I remember the whole thing because it's the only time I've ever written to What's Brewing where I proclaimed that I'd recently been in a pub (The Foresters, West Ealing) and had a truly amazing pint of Courage Best. Absolutely totally and utterly brilliant pint. Which at that point was not something you could say about it. So I wrote to say that if that pub could make that beer taste divine (it was, interestingly the only real ale they sold - indeed their entire selection was tiny) then why shouldn't Greene King IPA be able to do it and win second prize.Andrew Bowdenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16537107239353802646noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-90479652502442330102010-11-12T12:26:52.441+00:002010-11-12T12:26:52.441+00:00Andrew Bowden "which was not long after the G...Andrew Bowden "which was not long after the Green King IPA winning the Champion Beer of Britain...." WRONG!!! I know its probably not very important but as I was the assistant brewer at Kelham Island brewery in 2004 (which I assume is the year you are referring too) I feel I must point out that Kelham Island Pale Rider beat GK IPA in the CBOB competition, unfortunately no ever remembers that fact because of all booing for GK when they were announced as runners up.crownbrewerstuhttp://www.crownbrewery.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-22400136207208389052010-11-12T09:56:46.322+00:002010-11-12T09:56:46.322+00:00Oh. And gin seemingly. I blame Tyson. And myself o...Oh. And gin seemingly. I blame Tyson. And myself of course. )-;Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-80397863446183180672010-11-12T07:37:51.302+00:002010-11-12T07:37:51.302+00:00Pete: Must have had too many pints I'm afraid....Pete: Must have had too many pints I'm afraid. Sorry. I'll put it differently later, but I do think you are more than a bit all over the place on this one.Tandlemanhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06804499573827044693noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-40903895923623747402010-11-12T02:26:15.108+00:002010-11-12T02:26:15.108+00:00I went into a famous Birmingham real ale pub today...I went into a famous Birmingham real ale pub today. It has 18 cask ales but I really fancied a stout or a porter. unfortunately for me I have not been very impressed with the porter that they had on, it's just not to my taste. I still wanted a stout though and so opted for the keg stout. A few months back the pub got rid of the Guinness and replaced it with a keg stout from a small British lager brewer. It's ok, has some nice cocoa flavours, bit of roast, sweeter than Guinness. For my taste it was better than the cask porter but I wasn't going to have another. The one thing that let it down for me was that it tasted like a keg beer. Forcing Co2 through a beer effects the flavour and does so in a way that I don't like as much. Beernut has given me some food for thought about keg beers providing a better hop profile. i don't know whether I am convinced but I have been thinking about the level of carbonation left in my pint and how that effects the hop flavour. I would like to try some of these new keg beers to get an idea of this. I don't think it will change my belief that cask is better on the whole and I still want camra to campaign for real ale. It's easy to be complacent about the availability of real ale when every other pub, bar and venue is starting to sell it. On the whole I think cask ale is better, all things being equal. I don't think that makes me stupid or ignorant, I'm quite happy to try a good keg beer or any keg beer but I think I will almost always draw the same conclusion.Gavinnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-75199147034423042762010-11-12T01:12:36.907+00:002010-11-12T01:12:36.907+00:00Hmm. Tandleman abandons his usual position as one ...Hmm. Tandleman abandons his usual position as one of the most reasonable, intelligent, engaging, articulate and persuasive defenders of CAMRA I've ever come across and instead just starts insulting people. Strange what this particular brings out.<br /><br />Must have had a bad pint.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03011702209832734676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-53768157347169078762010-11-12T00:13:47.914+00:002010-11-12T00:13:47.914+00:00I've come here after reading your books and I ...I've come here after reading your books and I think you sum it up perfectly. <br /><br />Who.<br /><br />Gives.<br /><br />A.<br /><br />Shit.<br /><br />Does your beer taste good? That's surely the only question that needs to be asked. I was a member of CAMRA and I liked it. i liked their passion for beer and they do fight the good fight for beer drinkers, more power to them.<br /> The mags were good too.<br /><br />I remember, though, getting a bit annoyed at their issue of the day when I was a member - the full pint. They were all over it - pushing parliament for legislation, wanting the introduction of lined pint glasses. I just thought - if you think your pint's not full enough, surely you can ask for it to be topped up? I've done that. Everyone I know has done that. many pubs have a sign behind the bar ASKING you to do that. So it's a non-issue. Like the whole how-your-beer-gets-to-you issue.<br /><br />So yeah. Good post!Richnoreply@blogger.com