tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post8722972658651613406..comments2023-09-20T12:50:40.208+01:00Comments on Pete Brown: With great beer comes great responsibilityAnonymoushttp://www.blogger.com/profile/03011702209832734676noreply@blogger.comBlogger32125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-45288358855732301752014-07-12T14:43:36.199+01:002014-07-12T14:43:36.199+01:00Cloudy to murky: standard, expected, forecast in t...<a href="https://www.flickr.com/photos/cizauskas/7519585520/" rel="nofollow">Cloudy to murky</a>: standard, expected, forecast in the U.S.<br /><br />THOMAS CIZAUSKAShttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16485107199809830204noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-58571359006939350322014-05-26T21:43:35.124+01:002014-05-26T21:43:35.124+01:00Pete; I realize that I'm late coming to this, ...Pete; I realize that I'm late coming to this, but I only just read the post. First off, what you were doing, albeit rather indelicately, was not "Do you not know who I am?" but rather "These are my credentials for saying that I'm right and you're wrong." Big difference, IMO. It shouldn't be necessary, but occasionally is.<br /><br />Secondly, if you think things are back over there, try drinking around North America for a while. Try explaining massive diacetyl to a bartender. Try finding a pint of cask that isn't cloudy. Try getting your pint poured in an unchilled glass in the southern U.S. <br /><br />Nothing is going to change until all the people who do know better complain about the shite beers they are served, and explain why and occasionally how they know.Stephen Beaumonthttp://worldofbeer.wordpress.com/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-72667783475434393162014-05-26T16:07:43.005+01:002014-05-26T16:07:43.005+01:00Thanks for all the responses. Just one point on my...Thanks for all the responses. Just one point on my unease about complaining:<br /><br />It's not the complaining itself that I have the problem with - I actually take pints back to the bar at least once a week at the moment. The bit I felt uncomfortable with this time was having to resort to the "Do you know who I am" type spiel. I should be able to resolve the situation without pulling rank, so to speak, and this time I failed.Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03011702209832734676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-17668620275388150372014-05-25T14:00:30.364+01:002014-05-25T14:00:30.364+01:00I had a similar experience recently when I ordered...I had a similar experience recently when I ordered a half-pint of some kind of IPA and, though you couldn't quite have dressed a salad with it, it was definitely distinctly acetic.<br /><br />I said it had gone sour and asked if I could have a replacement. Th guy poured himself a taste and said it was fine. After some back and forth, he got his manager over who also tasted it and said it was fine. Eventually I ended up saying 'Look, I brew my own beer, I know what acetic acid tastes and smells like, and this beer has it in it.' <br /><br />After the guy asking whether I brewed commercially (!) and, when I said I homebrewed, he said 'That's a bit different', I said it wasn't and that acetic acid smells the same in homebrew as it does in commercial beer. They said no one else has complained, and it had only been on for two days. So I said the brewery either sent them infected beer, or they had dirty lines. Eventually, after insisting that they replace it, I got a half of a different beer, which was only slightly less acetic. I drank about half of it and left.<br /><br />This 10 minute discussion was over a *half pint*, which they ended up replacing anyway. Absolutely absurd. I felt like a bit of a twat mentioning that I brewed, but I genuinly don't know what else to say to such pig-headed ignorance. The less they know, the less they know it.<br /><br />This has happened enough that I, also, rarely get cask ale from craft beer pubs (or at least make sure I get a taster first). They get into beer from the keg/bottle side of things and don't understand that cask is a different beast and some level of cellarmanship is required.<br /><br />I get the feeling sometimes that people work in a craft beer pub, taste a few IPAs, and immediately feel like expert beer-guru-hipsters (a little like many 'baristas' you meet in overpriced coffee shops).<br /><br />They feel like they know better than all their customers and, by pointing out a fault in a beer and asking for a replacement, you're making some kind of personal affront to their expert authority.<br /><br />Anyone with tips on how to successfully get faulty beers replaced without a fight, or the need for twattish appeals to your own authority, let me know!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-63578898356057664522014-05-19T10:51:03.730+01:002014-05-19T10:51:03.730+01:00Spot on... although not nearly as high profile as ...Spot on... although not nearly as high profile as you, I have taken more than one member of bar staff and publican to task over the condition of their beer.<br /><br />Unless drinkers assert their "consumer rights" in the face of "trained" bartenders I fear this situation will prevail and the nascent craft beer movement may well come a cropper.<br /><br />Being polite and firm in complaining about poor beer quality is just as valid as any complaint about food or service or any other deficit in a business's offering.<br /><br />And in any event, it's good to release the "inner twat" from the constraints of the traditional British habit of not complaining.Publican Samhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04533484978463975994noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-51865391467895699132014-05-13T07:42:40.140+01:002014-05-13T07:42:40.140+01:00I'm happy as long as i can still drink my Coop...I'm happy as long as i can still drink my Coopers cloudy!Timhttp://thebeerdiary.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-29848173397011099222014-05-10T23:14:16.874+01:002014-05-10T23:14:16.874+01:00You should not feel badly about forcefully making ...You should not feel badly about forcefully making your point especially when you get pushback like that. "The customer is always right" seems too often to be forgotten especially here when you were actually right. When I order a bottle, I always insist to pour it myself. When ordering any draft now, cask or other, I ask for a taste to judge the clarity and the actual taste. This is rarely refused. <br /><br />The cloudy thing is a spin-off of the American craft revolution, far from the best part of it. But the funny thing is, it is relatively new. The idea of serving craft keg cloudy only came in about five years ago. Bottled craft beer often was filtered and even if it wasn't, of course in one's own hands you can treat it as you like. Cask here was and is almost always served cloudy due to a misunderstanding of what unfiltered means. <br /><br />So this has migrated over but people need to resist it: ask for tastes to judge the clarity, and don't let someone pour your bottle for you: it is the only way.<br /><br />GaryGary Gillmannoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-4260693769772712072014-05-09T17:07:10.302+01:002014-05-09T17:07:10.302+01:00Wonderful Pete. Gave me a huge chuckle along with...Wonderful Pete. Gave me a huge chuckle along with support for what I have been complaining about here in Toronto and seems to be expanding proportionally along with "Fashion Statement" expansion of craft brewing.<br />Don't misunderstand. I'm excited about all these young people experimenting with beer-young brewers, bars Ana a whole new generation of punters, but please don't take the piss. Give me a full clear fresh pint and don't be fobbing me off with thimble sized servings of unbalanced head bangers at 10 dollars a thimble.<br />And by the way I hear from a reliable source to anticipate paying a higher price for my beer soon.<br />Lots of "Business" reasons apparently but the poor man's trouser pocket is getting picked once again.<br />I'm starting to feel like the old fellow in Elbow's song!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03428359138132803099noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-46478534506455212112014-05-09T14:15:18.250+01:002014-05-09T14:15:18.250+01:00oh oh oh, my favourite sign of well educated bar s...oh oh oh, my favourite sign of well educated bar staff is when you buy a bottle of craft ale and they don't offer you a glass. Then when you ask for one, they give you a glass full of ice like its a magners or something. Never fails to make me smile.pynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-84845208314643109122014-05-09T14:12:11.677+01:002014-05-09T14:12:11.677+01:00They can f*ck off with their price premiums. I wan...They can f*ck off with their price premiums. I want top notch craft beer for the same price as a Carling. If you can't brew it that cheap, give up brewing son. If you refuse to sell it that cheap, enjoy finding a new job when your crappy pub shuts.<br />pynoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-14828744570324701482014-05-09T00:05:41.331+01:002014-05-09T00:05:41.331+01:00You make good points Pete, but your analogy forget...You make good points Pete, but your analogy forgets that in the greater dining experience there are only a handful of Michelin-starred restaurants, and the others - even if they're serving deconstructed whatever because its trendy - don't necessarily want to be one. <br /><br />In a world of ever increasing craft brewery numbers where all of their product needs to find a home are you suggesting that every beer-serving venue needs to be the equivalent of a Michelin starred restaurant. While we all want that, it simply defies logic and history that this will happen. <br /><br />The venues that stock good beer but serve it badly will keep serving it badly and go back to easy-to-serve international brands because they are less fuss. That's how we got to where we found ourselves 10 years ago. People like consistency but consistency is hard to do. This is the Achilles heel for craft if it relies on venues doing it right.<br /><br />Mind you, it sounds like the Bristol Hotel had been training its staff to some extent. If they have and they still can't meet the standard, it shows why craft is having a brief time in the sun and the gravity of consumer demands for consistency will surely drag us back to the past.BeerMatthttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00017664635973127718noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-56774414001021279432014-05-08T23:45:57.738+01:002014-05-08T23:45:57.738+01:00You hit many nails on the head Pete - problem is t...You hit many nails on the head Pete - problem is that with the continued renaissance and growth of the real/craft ale market we are getting a proliferation of 2 types of bar.<br /><br />The first will be the one we all revere - the one that keeps and serves its products in superb condition maybe opened by skilled enthusiasts leveraging advantageous trading conditions to start a great business that they have a commitment to.<br /><br />The second, of which there are a plethora appearing, are existing pubs and bars that see real ale as a potentially lucrative revenue stream, given its popularity. They don't give a shit about acquiring a deeper level of knowledge and developing a better skillset to be able to do it justice - to them its ££ in the till, cynically so.<br /><br />You then get the old chestnut from people who tell you that they've tried real ale for the first time and it was rubbish. That's the hugely frustrating part of the whole thing - artless mayflies who jump on and off bandwagons at will but can do significant damage as they do so...Nick Lovehttp://www.yorkmix.com/author/nick-love/noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-81949495856143163242014-05-08T23:28:59.142+01:002014-05-08T23:28:59.142+01:00I hear stories of brewers trying their own beer in...<i>I hear stories of brewers trying their own beer in craft beer bars, taking it back because it's cloudy, and being informed that the beer is unfiltered and is meant to be served that way.</i><br /><br />Thanks so much for saying this. I've been moaning about this problem for a while now - ever since I ordered a Moor beer (clearly labelled as unfined & therefore hazy, which is fair enough) and got a pint of yeast soup. Saying it's the luck of the draw isn't good enough any more.Philhttp://ohgoodale.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-32471783626303439202014-05-08T22:56:12.153+01:002014-05-08T22:56:12.153+01:00An excellent blog and I agree completely, stock an...An excellent blog and I agree completely, stock and serve what you are good at.mjpo007https://www.blogger.com/profile/07783259059731015017noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-29495755171227187542014-05-08T22:14:50.060+01:002014-05-08T22:14:50.060+01:00I feel this way about beers served in the United S...I feel this way about beers served in the United States at the same temperature: 30-40 degrees Fahrenheit. Then the drinker has to sit with his hands around the pint until the beer is bearable to drink.<br /><br />On too many occasions have I tasted beer that was too cold. I realize it's a challenge to chill beers at different temperatures, but it affects the quality of the drinks! Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-44349644681475303602014-05-08T21:50:50.160+01:002014-05-08T21:50:50.160+01:00Well, don't put all the blame down to the pub ...Well, don't put all the blame down to the pub and its staff. <br /><br />Do the brewers not have a responsibility too? If not to the drinking public, then at least to themselves? By this I mean that, if they become aware that their beer is not being stored or served correctly, shouldn't they intervene themselves (not directly at the bar, but via their own channels)? It does their reputation no good if the drinking public get the impression that the brewer makes crap beer, when its caused by the low standards of the retailer.<br /><br />paulhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03444657226013406660noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-89423605488977311922014-05-08T18:50:00.769+01:002014-05-08T18:50:00.769+01:00Always apply the same standards to choosing a hote...Always apply the same standards to choosing a hotel as you would to a bar. Your commute may be longer in the morning but your chi will thank you for it!Jim Andersonhttp://www.theanderson.co.uknoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-14740568609431182872014-05-08T18:31:00.786+01:002014-05-08T18:31:00.786+01:00Why is complaining twattish? Surely putting up wit...Why is complaining twattish? Surely putting up with ignorance and arrogance is more twattish still. Complain and don't feel guilty about it!Sarahhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01759448161130667128noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-50337620057366924432014-05-08T16:57:56.012+01:002014-05-08T16:57:56.012+01:00Good point well made and I understand your predica...Good point well made and I understand your predicament, it's so hard to bite your tongue when you know something isn't right. A reflection of how turning to keg in the 70's lead cellarmanship from being an art to a plug and pour job. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-58529300739721237952014-05-08T15:37:35.308+01:002014-05-08T15:37:35.308+01:00And if you don't serve it properly there's...And if you don't serve it properly there's a major risk of putting people off it.<br /><br />Thirty years ago to some extent "real ale" suffered from the same kind of problem because it had been put into lots of new outlets, many of which didn't know how to keep it to save their lives.Curmudgeonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02558747878308766840noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-14356037520887064822014-05-08T14:42:52.134+01:002014-05-08T14:42:52.134+01:00Thanks for writing this. This is something I'v...Thanks for writing this. This is something I've been saying for some time over here in the States; When a bar decides to start serving a higher end product, there is an inherent responsibility you must take to be sure you are serving said product correctly.<br /><br />Unfortunately, that gets written off as snobbery. And something my good friend and partner in crime (Oliver from Literature 7 Libations) just reiterated to me: "The problem is that beer is new. The rules are pretty complex to the layman, and we haven't had time, as a culture, to digest it as a product. It will get better, but we're gonna have to roll with a few punches along the way." Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03813810401685076007noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-66288394278585898432014-05-08T14:30:09.764+01:002014-05-08T14:30:09.764+01:00Fair point Jeff - always curious as to how much of...Fair point Jeff - always curious as to how much of a clue some brewers have. With nanything as potentially lucrative as craft beer, there are opportunists in both manufacture and retail...Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03011702209832734676noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-18160054288231986772014-05-08T14:23:28.492+01:002014-05-08T14:23:28.492+01:00All good points but what you fail to touch on is t...All good points but what you fail to touch on is that many of the new wave of craft brewers are really shitty about ullages and this has a knock on effect on the people who buy their beers and sell them to the public.<br /><br />In the past I've been treated with suspicion and thinly veiled contempt when I've rung up a brewer to say the beer isn't in a saleable condition. It doesn't happen much now because I've learned to stick to breweries run by professionals.Stonchhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07001578598975666535noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-32319217938229298592014-05-08T13:49:16.144+01:002014-05-08T13:49:16.144+01:00I really cannot blame you for breaking the cardina...I really cannot blame you for breaking the cardinal rule Pete.<br />Dunno what I would have done witnessing my requested Southville Hop poured out like that and the bar person having the temerity to argue with you. Probably something involving my hands and someone's neck.<br /> forExcellent post.Rod Howardnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-30743480.post-24017210935097771122014-05-08T13:28:24.526+01:002014-05-08T13:28:24.526+01:00Eye, you're not wrong Pete. You are on the pat...Eye, you're not wrong Pete. You are on the path matey. The circle we all go on.<br /><br />From drinking whatever is cheap at the SU to get pissed with mates, to caring about it and wanting others to aswell to all the way back round to figuring out it's a lot of bother and you're better off with cans of cheap supermarket pish.<br />Cooking Lagerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/02830924433230427226noreply@blogger.com